A friend of mine represents (I think that's the accurate term) a company that makes "alkalinized water" machines, and recently posted an ad for the device to his Facebook stream. I've put the salient points at the end of this post. My response was more than a little sarcastic:
Are you in the MLM placebo business now?Although it seems FB didn't carry his reply, he had copied me on it via email, and I'm reproducing it below [his name and brand names are redacted]:
+10 for suggesting people eat more green vegetables, even if it's for the wrong reasons. +10 for suggesting people pay attention to their water intake, which usually means drinking more than they do typically. -50 for making a business of selling a machine that make antibiotic water, and -200 for re-posting outright fraudulent health claims about mechanisms, including the implication that diet changes like those suggested can meaningfully affect blood pH.
I'm sure you're successful at it, because you're a brilliant and personable guy, but it's ethically like making your living as a tarot card reader or a priest.
In case this didn’t post on FB :
Once again, my personal experience belies your "research" as my health has made significant improvements since I began my alkaline quest. 1. ------- is not a MLM but a direct sales organization. They are different. 2. Blood pH has to be stable or you die.
IF you eat an acidic diet the body pulls the necessary minerals from your bones and you are arthritic as a result ... or I am I should say, paying the price for years of eating that diet. Read The Enzyme Factor and it gives a great rationale for improving health through food we eat and the water we drink. The ------ machine is a class 3 medical device in Japan, where consumption of alkaline water is significant, and their health results shames that of the US. I could go on, and I'd love to share my personal details with you.
All I do is give the water away to anyone who wants to try it. I’m trying to change our health system to a preventative model, starting with myself and doing it one person at a time. Results speak for themselves for many of those people I care about.
As far as placebo, I guess the dairy productivity studies that show significant improvements by changing the cow’s water supply are a placebo result? Smart cows I guess... Cheers, ----
To be fair, his personal story is wonderful and inspiring: A case of an individual taking charge of his own health after having been given poor odds, and coming out on top. It's an important reminder that statistics like mortality/morbidity rates, etc., are statistical, and cannot be applied to individual cases. By the same token, though, an individual experience cannot be extrapolated to a large population without additional evidence.
Also, to be fair, I may have been mistaken to call the sales channel for the $1,480 water-ionizing machine an MLM. Not that it really matters much as to the efficacy (or lack thereof) of the product.
From this point on, I'll address the specifics of the response:
At least we agree that blood pH must be stable (within a fairly narrow margin near 7.4) in order to remain in good health (with the results of extreme acidosis or alkalinosis being death).
"IF you eat an acidic diet the body pulls the necessary minerals from your bones and you are arthritic as a result"
I'd be interested in seeing a peer-reviewed citation that reaches this conclusion, in relation to maintaining blood pH levels.
First, from pretty much any physiology reference, you can learn how blood pH is primarily regulated by the bicarbonate buffering system, which maintains pH equilibrium through the balance of CO2 and HCO3- ions in the blood. Under stressed (high proton)(acidic) conditions, the lungs and kidneys take part in maintaining the necessary balance. Additional buffer systems involve ammonia and phosphate components. None of these are significantly affected by the overall pH of food or water a person might typically ingest. (Which is delivered directly into your stomach, where gastric acid is produced and present at a pH of 1.5 to 3.5 or so.)
Note: If you're talking about pH other than blood pH, then you'd need to be more specific, but since your comments are about blood pH, that's what I'm going to address.
Second, I believe you have the arthritis/bone-loss process backward. (Please correct me with non-anecdotal evidence if you believe this isn't the case.) Typically, arthritis involves the joint cartilage (Osteoarthritis) or inflammation of the membranes lining the joints (Rheumatoid Arthritis). I'm not aware of research that shows evidence of either of these being the result of bone loss. On the contrary, bone loss has been found likely in those with arthritis, and a good deal of research has been performed, to the point where effective protocols have been described for preventing bone loss in those with arthritis.
Read The Enzyme Factor and it gives a great rationale for improving health through food we eat and the water we drink
Just to be clear, I don't think there is any doubt that health can be improved through attention to diet (including, obviously, food and water), as well as exercise and other lifestyle choices. This is clear in experiment and in practice. However, that does nothing to validate the mechanisms claimed in your posts.
I assume your recommended The Enzyme Factor is the book by Hiromi Shinya. He's quite famous for his work in colonoscopy since the 1960s. His claims about enzymes, though, seem to be without the backing of any peer-reviewed research, and he has endorsed specific brands of consumer water products over the last ten years, leading to obvious questions about whether his theory and opinions on the topic are at all impartial. I welcome references to peer-reviewed studies on the matter if I've overlooked them.
The ------ machine is a class 3 medical device in Japan, where consumption of alkaline water is significant,
I'm not sure what you mean by "significant", and would be interested in sources for that claim. The "medical device" certification is fairly widely available, but states only that the company has a permit to manufacture the machine as designed, and neither that certification, nor any Japanese government agency, seems to endorse the use of the machine's product for any particular purpose, or as being effective.
and their health results shames that of the US.
You would really need to show some evidence of a link between the two for this to mean anything. There are thousands of things about diet, lifestyle, and philosophy that are different between Japan and the US which one could claim produces positive health outcomes (including lower healthcare costs).
I could go on, and I'd love to share my personal details with you.
No, thanks. While I'm very happy for you, and very, very glad to have you around, the anecdotes aren't really that helpful to me personally.
All I do is give the water away to anyone who wants to try it.
That's clearly not all you do. You convince people to buy these gadgets. It's possible that you receive no compensation for doing so, but I don't think you're making that claim.
I’m trying to change our health system to a preventative model, starting with myself and doing it one person at a time.
That certainly sounds noble. And, to the extent of recommending that people make wiser choices about their food intake, increase their awareness of the quantity and quality of the water they drink, understand the effects of exercise on their health, and make other lifestyle changes that give them healthier, longer, happier lives, I'm all in with you, 100%. However, none of these things require making claims for which there is no objective evidence and in which there are no good reasons to believe.
Results speak for themselves for many of those people I care about.
I know. For some people, the exact same can be said of Tarot cards, horoscopes, homeopathy, dousing, and dreamcatchers. It doesn't mean the effect is real, caused by the mechanism claimed, or applicable to others.
As far as placebo, I guess the dairy productivity studies that show significant improvements by changing the cow’s water supply are a placebo result? Smart cows I guess..
If you're referring to the "study" of 27 dairy farms in Japan, the only copies of the "study" I've been able to find have been anecdotal summaries of "results". I haven't seen a single piece of documentation about the nature of the experiment, the controls, how data was gathered and analyzed, sources of error, or anything that could be characterized as scientific. I can find a slew of patent applications for devices to make alkaline water for cows, but all are speculative on the method, and most address it to ruminant acidosis. If you happen to have a link to a published paper in a peer-reviewed journal, I'd love to see it.
So, I wouldn't spend all this effort on a reply for no good reason, and generally I'm of a live-and-let-live attitude, but there are a few factors that make addressing it worth the effort:
1) It seems clear, from an objective point of view, that the health claims (copied below) are a scam, and the the end goal of those claims is to create a market for the sale of devices and consultancies.
2) I think you are an intelligent, lucid person who actually intends to do the right thing, including improving the health and happiness of others and providing a focus on preventative measures as a key element of healthcare.
3) I think you can be extremely effective at #2 without having to associate yourself with the absurd and rationally unsupportable claims of #1, and that you can ethically accomplish your goals through direct consultation, without having people send their money away to those publishing these claims.
As always, comments and discussion are welcome.
-Jon
First, from pretty much any physiology reference, you can learn how blood pH is primarily regulated by the bicarbonate buffering system, which maintains pH equilibrium through the balance of CO2 and HCO3- ions in the blood. Under stressed (high proton)(acidic) conditions, the lungs and kidneys take part in maintaining the necessary balance. Additional buffer systems involve ammonia and phosphate components. None of these are significantly affected by the overall pH of food or water a person might typically ingest. (Which is delivered directly into your stomach, where gastric acid is produced and present at a pH of 1.5 to 3.5 or so.)
Note: If you're talking about pH other than blood pH, then you'd need to be more specific, but since your comments are about blood pH, that's what I'm going to address.
Second, I believe you have the arthritis/bone-loss process backward. (Please correct me with non-anecdotal evidence if you believe this isn't the case.) Typically, arthritis involves the joint cartilage (Osteoarthritis) or inflammation of the membranes lining the joints (Rheumatoid Arthritis). I'm not aware of research that shows evidence of either of these being the result of bone loss. On the contrary, bone loss has been found likely in those with arthritis, and a good deal of research has been performed, to the point where effective protocols have been described for preventing bone loss in those with arthritis.
Read The Enzyme Factor and it gives a great rationale for improving health through food we eat and the water we drink
Just to be clear, I don't think there is any doubt that health can be improved through attention to diet (including, obviously, food and water), as well as exercise and other lifestyle choices. This is clear in experiment and in practice. However, that does nothing to validate the mechanisms claimed in your posts.
I assume your recommended The Enzyme Factor is the book by Hiromi Shinya. He's quite famous for his work in colonoscopy since the 1960s. His claims about enzymes, though, seem to be without the backing of any peer-reviewed research, and he has endorsed specific brands of consumer water products over the last ten years, leading to obvious questions about whether his theory and opinions on the topic are at all impartial. I welcome references to peer-reviewed studies on the matter if I've overlooked them.
The ------ machine is a class 3 medical device in Japan, where consumption of alkaline water is significant,
I'm not sure what you mean by "significant", and would be interested in sources for that claim. The "medical device" certification is fairly widely available, but states only that the company has a permit to manufacture the machine as designed, and neither that certification, nor any Japanese government agency, seems to endorse the use of the machine's product for any particular purpose, or as being effective.
and their health results shames that of the US.
You would really need to show some evidence of a link between the two for this to mean anything. There are thousands of things about diet, lifestyle, and philosophy that are different between Japan and the US which one could claim produces positive health outcomes (including lower healthcare costs).
I could go on, and I'd love to share my personal details with you.
No, thanks. While I'm very happy for you, and very, very glad to have you around, the anecdotes aren't really that helpful to me personally.
All I do is give the water away to anyone who wants to try it.
That's clearly not all you do. You convince people to buy these gadgets. It's possible that you receive no compensation for doing so, but I don't think you're making that claim.
I’m trying to change our health system to a preventative model, starting with myself and doing it one person at a time.
That certainly sounds noble. And, to the extent of recommending that people make wiser choices about their food intake, increase their awareness of the quantity and quality of the water they drink, understand the effects of exercise on their health, and make other lifestyle changes that give them healthier, longer, happier lives, I'm all in with you, 100%. However, none of these things require making claims for which there is no objective evidence and in which there are no good reasons to believe.
Results speak for themselves for many of those people I care about.
I know. For some people, the exact same can be said of Tarot cards, horoscopes, homeopathy, dousing, and dreamcatchers. It doesn't mean the effect is real, caused by the mechanism claimed, or applicable to others.
As far as placebo, I guess the dairy productivity studies that show significant improvements by changing the cow’s water supply are a placebo result? Smart cows I guess..
If you're referring to the "study" of 27 dairy farms in Japan, the only copies of the "study" I've been able to find have been anecdotal summaries of "results". I haven't seen a single piece of documentation about the nature of the experiment, the controls, how data was gathered and analyzed, sources of error, or anything that could be characterized as scientific. I can find a slew of patent applications for devices to make alkaline water for cows, but all are speculative on the method, and most address it to ruminant acidosis. If you happen to have a link to a published paper in a peer-reviewed journal, I'd love to see it.
So, I wouldn't spend all this effort on a reply for no good reason, and generally I'm of a live-and-let-live attitude, but there are a few factors that make addressing it worth the effort:
1) It seems clear, from an objective point of view, that the health claims (copied below) are a scam, and the the end goal of those claims is to create a market for the sale of devices and consultancies.
2) I think you are an intelligent, lucid person who actually intends to do the right thing, including improving the health and happiness of others and providing a focus on preventative measures as a key element of healthcare.
3) I think you can be extremely effective at #2 without having to associate yourself with the absurd and rationally unsupportable claims of #1, and that you can ethically accomplish your goals through direct consultation, without having people send their money away to those publishing these claims.
As always, comments and discussion are welcome.
-Jon
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